Good luck finding that a great normal hot girl is hard to find im not talking game here im talking in general.

Disagree with that.

Entropy,

I really liked the article. It’s not often that I save anything I read anymore because it all seems to be a rehashing of stuff I’ve seen before, but this was simple and concise. I know you’ve said in the past that a beautiful, NORMAL women are not hard to find, but why is that so many of us feel otherwise. Do you think we just don’t approach hot women because of whatever preconceived notion we have of them so we pass up perfect opportunities? I dunno man, the few hot women I’ve ever spoken to have all been very aloof or boring, while normal girls can be so engaging and funny. What gives?

The difference? The hot ones don’t want to talk to you and the average ones do?

There are ugly girls who are manipulative evil bitches, and there are smoking hot girls who are normal and intelligent.

The hottest girl I’ve ever dated was a 6′0″ model and her favorite thing in the world was to curl up and watch nature and travel documentaries with me…

The hottest girls can often be the sweetest and most interesting. It just takes a while to figure out because unlike average girls, when you approach them, you’re like the 6th guy that day.

Actually I was torn by this article. I

Entropy – that is easier said then done. You are a taller good looking guy and for the average guys out there that can be very difficult to find. Almost near impossible. Women with low esteem gravitate to money or looks. And there are tons of these women out there.

Its very rare I find any “hot” women that is not screwed up. Most I have found do date the bad boys, douche bags and all. And most do not want to give you the time of day at least to the average guy. Well if you have money or status or something then they will….This is why game really does not work. I mean if it did, then why are so many men not successful at it?

Mike:

1) Perhaps you should reconsider your definition of “hot” and “high value” women. Do you think the girls on the show “Jersey Shore” are hot? If so, then that’s your problem.

2) You’re going to get what you perceive in the world. If you assume that people are cold and untrustworthy, then you’ll meet cold untrustworthy people. If you assume that people are friendly and open, then you’ll meet friendly and open people.

If you assume all women are “screwed up,” then you will meet screwed up women.

We’re all “screwed up” in one way or another — I mean, we all have issues, emotional baggage and insecurities. The question is, who are the people who accept their own flaws and are comfortable with themselves and who are those who are blind to them?

There are plenty of gorgeous women out there who know that their shit don’t smell of roses… and if you’re looking for them in a strip club in Vegas, then you need to re-evaluate your concept of beauty and quality.

Shit, this may turn into a good article…

No I am just talking everyday. I live in a big US city and go out to local events, clubs, fairs, festivals – you name it I do circulate. I find this attitude everywhere. I really do not frequent strip clubs and I am not a Vegas type. I think the girls on Jersey shore and like shows are rather trampy but they do seem like a bit of fun but again, they are not my type.

It just seems to me that hot women in general know they can get what they want . So why would they want an average guy who maybe does treat them well, has a good sense of humor – basically a decent overall guy. Thats not for them. They like excitement and emotional rollercoasters. So they big the douchey guys and it becomes their own “reality soap opera.” They can do it for their currency is beauty and its an expensive currency. I used to work as a bartender at a big establishment in NYC and boy was that a trip. It almost made you hate the whole mating experience.

I wish I could agree with you but for my 35 plus years on this planet, I have rarely found any “hot’ women that were cool, had decent esteem and did not use their looks to get what they wanted.

So after learning all this game stuff (which never has worked) I just do not date anymore. Its just a hassle. For a guy like yourself, its probably less of a struggle. For a guy like me, it really is.

I wanted to add that it is rather naive:

“You’re going to get what you perceive in the world. If you assume that people are cold and untrustworthy, then you’ll meet cold untrustworthy people. If you assume that people are friendly and open, then you’ll meet friendly and open people.”

If you assume all women are “screwed up,” then you will meet screwed up women.

This is typical community “your reality vs. their reality” Tolle New Age pablum.

Yes there are cases were if you yell as someone then they will yell back but if you go about living your life being positive and trying as hard as you can and then consistently getting the door slammed in your face, then you will start to get a big jaded. Einstein’s theory on insanity – repeating the same mistake over and over is pretty true. You cannot say that always being friendly will “bring friendly beams of love back.” I never see that with hot women. They usually are pretty selfish and into themselves. Take a look at popular culture and women like Paris Hilton and stuff. It would not thrive if women were not into it….think about that!…

If you don’t have a dating life… and I mean, you literally DON’T go on dates with women… how can you possibly know anything about hot women?

In fact, you openly admit that you have zero success with them, and then in the same breath blame them for being selfish, shallow, self-centered, etc.

You admittedly are the WORST reliable source for this information.

Have you ever considered that maybe the reason you can’t get a date is because nobody wants to date a whiney, self-loathing, negative, argumentative guy like you? Or is height really the only explanation you can come up with? Because my explanation makes about 100 times more sense to me.

When you say the community didn’t work for you, I believe you. It sounds like your personal issues stem much, much deeper than anything the community can do.

And right now, you’re a glowing example of the exact point that I’ve made twice: that shit inner game will only point you to women with shit inner game.

If you have a constructive point to make to any of this, feel free to email it to me. I’d be happy to start a deeper discussion on the blog about it.

However, if you want to continue the whining and the “OMG Entropy, you’re so lucky you’re tall,” pity parade, then please save it for someone’s blog who cares.

Entropy, I really enjoyed this article. I tend to agree with you on this discussion as well. I know for myself, the day that I really realized that my failures with women were my own fault was a major turning point for me.

Things never clicked for me with women, until I stopped focusing on women, and started focusing on myself. Inner game is paramount for success with women, and with anything else in life as well.

[...] http://www.EntropyPUA.com – Women with Low Self Esteem [...]

Mike: I dunno man, I USE TO to feel the same way as you. Pissed, angry, and bitter – thinkin girls only went for tall, good looking guys (i’m 5′8 and have enough body hair to make Robin Williams look like Greg Louganus). I blamed other people and never took responsibility for my own actions.

Eventually I got sick of feeling the way I did, and decided to put a SHIT TON of work into myself to make myself a better person. I spent hours in the gym, got rejected by hundreds of girls, read books, explored new hobbies, watched movies, practiced my speech, body language, story telling, ect… and eventually girls started to take notice. I went on more dates, had more in depth conversations, and got to know more and more people.

What I’ve found is that good, high quality, fun, nice, amazing, sexy girls really do exist out there. You just gotta keep plugging away, working on yourself, changing your paradigms and concepts of reality till you start seeing the world in a better, more positive light, and actually FEEL better about the world and yourself. Things will start to fall into place. Don’t give up man! It’s a long road but u can do it!

Brett

Great stuff Entropy. I think your signs of low self esteem are pretty complete. I might add “constantly bragging”. She always wants to tell you she knows the owner of such and such club, she had some guy offer her a trip to Prague, she got hit on by such and such celebrity…..on and on.

And I had a similar experience as you with a crazy ex-gf a long time ago. I sympathize.

@ Mike – as far as Mark’s height……it’s not a real issue if it can be cured with a pair of boots.

Great post man. As I was reading your description of low self esteem women, a relatively infamous PUA groupie who you nailed came to mind…Particularly the part about roping you in with the guy trying to raper her or best friend dying stuff. When I was in Vegas with a friend she kept texting hin needy tales of forgotten wallets and ids (despite having gotten on a plane to Vegas) among various other mini-crises that were totally ignored on my buddy’s part.

For a really in depth understanding of self-esteem (both high, low, and pseudo) I think The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem by Nathaniel Branden is REALLY good. I had a situation with an ex-girlfriend with LSE as well, and afterwards it sent me on a journey to figure out everything I could about self-esteem. It’s not very verbose and is engaging. Has anybody else read it?

I think this is a majorly important topic, Entropy. Glad you expanded here

I still wonder:

- what ‘warning signs’ or red flags do LSE women give off? I must admit my last serious ex was a LSE woman, and looking back I could see some things – next time I’d like to notice them at the time and not go down a one-way road.

- what things do manipulative women do early on in the dating process..?

Thanks for writing about LSE!

If she’s LSE, you’ll run into the stuff on this list fairly quickly, within a month of seeing her if not within a few weeks.

If you anything major comes up within a week, then RUN!

I banged a girl once, set up another time to hang out with her but then had to cancel for a legitimate reason. I told her sorry and that I’d make time for her again soon. The chick called me literally 20+ times BEGGING me to come over and telling me how upset she was with me.

RUN!!!!

Part of noticing these things is having standards and high self esteem yourself. It’s desperate and needy guys who will often overlook this type of behavior because they’re so enamored with her, or don’t want to stomach the thought of losing the only girl they have a shot with.

Interesting post. One observation. Another example of low-self esteem would be the mixed messages and push-pull all resulting from an inner conflict of not being able to say yes but not willing to say good-bye until something better comes along. Walk away. Walk away. I had a similar experience late last year where a girl new to my social circle came on strong. Phone calls, texts, major IOI’s, etc. I played it cool, resisted and she ramped it up.

The minute I began to show any interest at all she started scaling it back….and I resorted to AFC behaviour. Now I’m RAFC. I recognize this much sooner now.

If a girl doesn’t know who they are, why would you want to invest any time in trying to figure out a puzzle that can’t be solved?

I’ve struggled a lot over the years about whether or not there actually are sane, well adjusted, fun and beautfiful women out there…. it always seemed they had some craziness that would eventually surface…

but like Entropy said… we attract those who match the level we are at…

I look back five years and think, god, if i did run into the woman of my dreams I would have blown it massively… I was a mess… of course, i didn’t know it at the time ( i forget who said it… but human beings have an infinite ability for self deception)

So my advice- to Mike and any other guys struggling….

Take a long, hard, honest look at yourself (not your money, height, looks) but who you are as mature, masculine, man… and ask yourself, from an objective point of view… would you date you?

I mentioned this in my last comment… but I highly recommend David DeAngelo’s Mantransformation Seminar…

Although I suspect you need to be in a certain place in your life already to fully grasp and integrate it…

if not, you’ll probably find excuses why it doesn’t work for guys like you…

My partner struggled a lot when dating, always seeming to attract crazy women with major self esteem issues. All the girls he dated were addicted to drama. It was interesting how he always atracted the same kind of women until he changed his own thought process and started focusing on what he wanted instaed of what he didn’t want.

I like this post for a couple of reasons. First, it has helped me to better understand why women with LSE are more inclined to have one-night-stands with jerk men that prey on their weakness. This realization comes at a point in my life where I am trying to deal with a one-night stand my wife had when she was younger. I couldn’t understand how she could just allow herself to be “taken in” by such a person. I kept thinking of the sex act itself, how he charmed her out of her clothes, how she enjoyed it…. and am tormented by it. However, it seems that from the many pieces of advice that I’ve read concernnig the subject, I am convinced that this was a self-esteem issue, for the most part.

Second, it has made me evaluate my own marriage to this person and I fear that I have made a mistake marrying a woman with such LSE. She constantly gives me the feeling (even though she’s never cheated or disrespected me) that she would seek out another man if the opportunity was there. I see this in her when we are around men that are good looking. She tends to get shy and coy. This really upsets me greatly because I think to myself “who are they to her that she should feel so intimidated?”
Subsequently, I feel as if she were flirting in some way or shying away and playing coy in order to build the OTHER man’s self-esteem. After all, she would never shy away or play coy with me, her husband.

This leaves me to consider many things, one being that maybe it’s time for a divorce. Unless, of course, there is something that can be done. Maybe even to help the both of us. Thanks again.

Hey John,

Thanks for the open and sincere comment. It sounds like your wife may have some self-esteem issues, but it also sounds to me like you have some jealousy issues. Although you have some legitimate gripes, some of your comments strike me as overly-sensitive. Just something to think about.

Thanks, Entropy. You are right.