Development, Personal - Written by Entropy on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 0:24 - 15 Comments
My Personal PUA Journey
I’ve recently gotten a few emails and comments asking if I could be more specific about my personal PUA development: what sticking points did I have? What did I work on? How long did it take? Etc. I get this question A LOT in seminars and lair talks as well, so I decided to break it down here.
So here’s the run-down:
In The Beginning:
When: Late 2005
Situation: Had just read “The Game”. Could barely even fathom approaching hot girls, much less envision myself actually doing it. Had just gotten dumped by the love of my life, still dealing with some baggage and depression. Hadn’t had sex in almost a year.
Natural Strengths: Tall and decent-looking. Could hold a good conversation. Good sense of humor. Had some friends. If I got drunk enough, I wasn’t afraid to try and make out with a girl.
Natural Weaknesses: Scared to death of approaching. Had serious commitment/self-esteem/sexual anxiety issues. Honestly believed that I’d never get another girl as amazing as my ex to ever like me again.
Phase 1: OMG, She Talked to Me!
When: Winter and Spring of 2006
Progress Report: It took me three months to actually work up the nerve to cold approach a girl. When I finally did, I was so nervous and self-conscious, I actually apologized for talking to her. I focused mainly on going to parties and meeting girls through my friends. I used some of David DeAngelo’s Cocky/Funny to turn my humor on girls and actually got some mediocre results. A drunk make-out here, an ugly girl’s phone number there. Still no real results though.
I read the Venusian Arts Handbook (basically what became Magic Bullets) and decided to memorize some routines, magic tricks and even some palm-reading. In my first couple dozen sets of my life, I would try these and they would fail miserably. I suck at magic. One girl, while getting a palm-read, looked at me and said, “Why are you touching me?” Another girl, after a botched magic trick looked at me and said, “You should just try being normal.” Little did I know, she gave me better advice than 80% of the PUA community.
Sticking Points: I still had awful approach anxiety. Anything more than one set a night was a “good night.” Attraction game was all over the place, uncalibrated, and awkward. I sucked at routines.
Phase 2: Afraid of Sex
When: May – July of 2006
Progress Report: I took the girl’s advice and tried to just act normal on cold approaches. To my utter amazement, my results got better. I stuck with the Cocky/Funny I used at my friend’s parties and actually started getting phone numbers off cold approach.
My social circle game really started coming into its own. My occasional drunk make-outs finally turned into hook ups and in April, I ended a 16-month sex drought. The experience was terrifying.
When I got sexual with girls, I freaked out that they’d become emotional attached or involved with me (baggage from my relationship; me projecting), and would quit answering their calls. I held the limiting belief that any girl who would sleep with me wanted to be my girlfriend. Seriously…
In June, I met up with a local Boston guy through the lair. He could approach all night but couldn’t hold conversations. I could hold conversations all night but couldn’t approach because I still had crippling approach anxiety. He proceeded to approach about eight sets in the first hour. I stood by stunned and horrified at the groups he fearlessly started talking to. By the end of the night I calmed down and even opened a few sets myself. My AA finally became manageable.
It was in July in which I met a super-natural. We met because the same girl invited us both to a party of hers. To this day, I have yet to meet anyone in the community better than him. Over the next year, I would go out with him and watch him pull smoking hot girls home consistently and without hesitation. I owe a lot of the speed and extent of my development to him.
Sticking Points: Bad sexual anxiety. Sloppy escalation. Would act like a jack ass on day 2’s.
Phase 3: Finally Getting It
When: August – December 2006
Progress Report: I continued to go out five nights a week, half of which I spent with my natural wing, the other half with community guys or college friends.
Watching my natural friend interact with women quickly influenced my dominance and how sexual I was willing to be around girls. The stuff he pulled off was amazing and consistently tested my beliefs and reality.
That summer, I took a girl home from a party. She was very aggressive and it was apparently within an hour or two that we’d have sex. When we got back to my place, once again I ran into severe sexual anxiety and started freaking out that this girl was going to want to date me or something. I decided to take the bluntly honest route and talk to her, set expectations. I told her after sex, “Hey, you’re cool but you need to know this isn’t going to go anywhere.”
She laughed in my face and said, “Who said I wanted to see you again?” This experience was HUGE.
My college party/social circle game hit its peak. I had a night in August where I hooked up with three girls in one night. My college friends and their parties would continue to supply the majority of my lays for the next six months.
I got my first fuck buddies, although I was still bad at keeping them around. I still over-gamed on day 2’s and girls I had already slept with, mostly out of a lack of confidence, but also out of habit.
During this period, I probably slept with 10-12 girls, tripling the amount of women I had been with in my entire life.
On paper, I suppose I had reached legitimate “PUA” status. Within only eight months, I had gone from being a stumbling newbie who needed help approaching, to the guy most guys came to for advice in the lair. I got one night stands. I had a fuck buddy or two.
But I still had a lot of inner game work and emotional work to do — stuff I had never planned on working on, but would soon bite me in the ass.
Sticking Points: Inner game — seeking way too much validation, becoming addicted to sarging. Emotionally vacant. Still had sexual anxiety issues.
Interlude: The Salvadorean Woman
When: January – May 2007
Progress Report: I began to get frustrated in December of 2006. I still had a lot of irrational fears about girls I was seeing — I’d inexplicably stop calling them back and decide that they were needy and crazy — and kept fighting bouts of sexual anxiety.
I decided to check myself into therapy. I did some research, found a guy near my apartment who my insurance covered and I could relate to (went to same college, had been a musician and a slacker, used to womanize when he was young).
What started out as, “Hey Doc, help me keep my pecker hard,” turned into a long dialog that delved into my emotional issues — first, my ex-girlfriend (predictable) and then my parent’s divorce (whoa, didn’t see that coming) and then finally my entire adolescence.
I’m not one of those guys who shits on therapy at all. I think if you find the right therapist, it’s incredibly helpful. You just have to find the right person and be willing to open yourself up and work on yourself. I was extremely engaged every week. Every week I’d figure something out about myself, my emotional inner works, my past, my issues, etc. and then I’d spend the rest of the week turning the ideas over in my head. Eventually, after about 4-5 months, I showed up one day and it felt like I didn’t have anything to talk about. So I stopped. That was it. All in all, seeking therapy was one of the smartest things I ever did.
The other thing that happened was I met a woman. She was foreign (love it), older (also love it), beautiful, smart and rich. Our first date consisted of her buying a bottle of Johnny Walker and us sitting in her apartment until 4AM speaking in broken English (her) and broken Spanish (me). It was wonderful.
Now, as with all the other previous girls that I had really liked, I was still scared shitless of commitment, but this woman was too amazing to not commit to. She was mature and handled her emotions well, which is what I needed in the girl I dated at the time. She was fun and playful, had a sexy accent, and spoiled the shit out of me. It’s really hard to ditch a woman when she’s sexy, fun AND perfectly willing to spend $1000 on you without thinking twice.
It was good for me. It was perfect for me really. It restored my confidence, my emotional stability, helped me open myself up again. I wasn’t afraid of intimacy or relationships anymore.
Eventually, she had to move back to her country. Her family worked in the government (which in Central America is a huge deal). She finagled a job for me at the US Embassy down there and invited me to go down to live with her.
As fantastic as it all sounded, I realized she and I wanted different things. I had just gotten out of college. She wanted to settle down, probably marry and have kids. The idea that a woman was actually willing to marry me — and not even that, a woman of THAT caliber really did a number on my reality.
Unfortunately, I had to turn her down. We lost touch. She was such a blessing and I still think about her now and again.
Phase 4: Put Me Back in the Game Coach
When: May – December 2007
Progress Report: When I came back, I was rusty for a few weeks. But in no time, I was hitting it hard again, five nights a week, and the results started pouring in like there was no tomorrow. Probably a new girl every week or two for six months.
But the difference was that I was actually keeping girls around now. I was keeping them around for three, six, even eight months at a time. We always seemed to enjoy our time together. And when it came time for them to move on, I was remaining friends with them. There were almost never any hard feelings or awful drama.
Within a few months I had a large rotation of girls that I maintained until the end of the year.
Sticking Points: I still remained emotionally shallow with my girls. Also, my lifestyle had become dominated by pick up. I reached a point where I was unemployed, broke, living on a friend’s couch, and was dating four girls and going out three nights a week. It was stupid. And I quickly became miserable.
Phase 5: Girlfriend, Coaching and the Post-PUA Life
When: January – September 2008
Progress Report: I decided to put my life in order. On top of being a mess personally and financially, I was getting burnt out from all of the sarging. I don’t know about you, but after about a dozen 4-month-long casual relationships, it starts to get a bit old. The one night stands got old even way before that.
This period, I found myself slowly falling into another serious long-term relationship with my current girlfriend. She started as a FB about six months prior.
This period also saw me begin coaching which created a bizarre effect on my social life and general psyche for a while. This is documented on this blog in my “Post PUA Life” posts from the summer of 2008.
But a lot of this was just getting back to being a normal person again. As fucked up as that sounds, it was true. Learning how to NOT go out five nights a week. Learning how to go out and NOT approach girls and still have fun.
Phase 6: Emotional Freedom, Polyamory, and Beyond?
When: September 2008 – Present
Progress Report: The evolution I’ve gone through the last six months has been a deeply emotional/relationship management one. It has also been chronicles on this blog here. My saga with Erika has also been a product of this personal evolution.
Sticking Points: I’d say my sticking points now involve managing multiple deep emotional relationships simultaneously — you could call it “love logistics.” I still think when it comes down to it, the first five minutes are my weakest minutes of any cold approach. I could do better opening large groups and handling night-game logistics. But these are all things that I don’t really plan on addressing until I become single again, move and starting going out again.
15 Comments
Brian
Anonymous
Great post as usual. You have one of the best written and thought provoking blogs in the industry and read a number of them. However, I have to say this, I cannot see how a tall and decent looking guy without any serious mental hangups or possible addictions could not become a successful PUA quickly with diligent work. Lets be honest here. Your natural tools give you a quantum leap over a shorter guy who is not as attractive in the eyes of women. Women look at high as a top attractive attribute. Height will never be something she can give LMR too in the case of guys like you, Brad P, Savoy, the Don, Braddock…I know guys like Doc and Cajun do well but your height factor will automatically put you in a top echelon just like being a switch hitting batter hitting .250 will always have a job while a purely right or left handed guy batting the same might not be as secure. I know guys that are tall and slightly out of shape that can pickup women due to their physical attributes alone over a guy that is shorter and in shape…its just life…
I really cannot see how you could not succeed without any major hangups and/or problems…
mindfuck
Great, this totally changed what I though about you
I just realized that you are first different from most ‘PUAs’ out there, second you gained a lot of credibility in my eyes because I have the feeling that you truly mean what you say, and third you are REALLY working on personal development and not on getting girls, which is great.
Dan
One of the best posts Ive read on any of the “PUA Blogs” around. Detailing all of this was extremely helpful. Being able to see your progression and the problems you dealt with along the way, specifically.
Do you think that in dealing with sexual anxiety that finding a good therapist to work with is the best method?
nothing-matters-but-future
Hey Entropy, That was a superb post, never heard another PUA type, actually talk about this like you did.
You talk about going from having social anxiety and self-esteem issues to opening women… then once good at Pickup maybe trying to revert to “being normal”.
What do you think is the right medium for someone trying to learn pickup? I don’t like being too gimmicky with tricks and routines as I dont find I deliver them too sincerely, I dont look like a palm reading kind of guy…. At the same time, I’m shy and kinda quiet so I don’t make great conversation. If I talk about “normal” stuff it seems to translate to “boring stuff” in girltalk… No matter where I look in the community I still dont see what I need to do, how do I avoid bieng a routine-jock but just be a fun interesting guys, as in, where do you lead conversation? Things like that.
Anyway, cool post man.
Entropy4
Anonymous: I agree with you to an extent. My natural advantages will always make things easier for me as opposed to a guy like say, Doc, who is 5′5″. I’ve actually written about that on my blog recently.
But to say me getting good is inevitable is like saying someone like Tom Brady getting good is inevitable because he’s tall, athletic and has a good work ethic.
The thing is, THOUSANDS of guys are tall, good-looking and don’t have mental hangups. So where are they? Why aren’t all gurus tall, good-looking, with tight inner game?
I’ve always had confidence and been diligence, that was an inner game advantage I’ve had. But I had to deal with just as many anxieties, if not more when I started out, than most guys. What got me through them was my persistence and dedication.
Side note: LMR has nothing to do with height, but the girl’s emotional comfort with you as a person.
You raise good points, but I think you over-estimate the height-advantage (I get the sense that you’re a shorter guy). I’ll tell you this, the two best guys I’ve ever seen in field (both naturals) were 5′7″ and 5′10″ — average height. Both those guys are better than I am.
Rodrigo
Hey nice one…
I really haven’t done the newbie drill and I was wondering… is it really worth it?
Do I want to feel like a loser if I go out and don’t approach every girl I see? I’ve been meeting new girls constantly from college.
And I also wonder this because I see that a lot of great PUA’s like yourself get good because they went through the rough times and went out 5 times a week.
I don’t have time for that at this point. And most importantly, I don’t want to be a PUA.
I just want to be, like you say, a normal guy. But a socially successful normal guy. A guy that has fun wherever, whenever. Dating science has been helping me tons with it.
But I can’t spend too much money on it because I need to buy a new bass and books.
What do you think Entropy, should I do the newbie drill? Is it worth it spending all that money going out and all that time spent?
I see that for you it was great cause it served as a path out of countless others that made you realize what you really wanted.
What if I already know what I want?
-Rodrigo
P.S. Hey i’m glad your lesson went well hope you got something that will help you forever with your playing. : )
Anonymous
Could you possibly tell us what you learned from those 2 naturals? Could you interview them?
Anonymous
Wow very inspirational. Im currently at phase 2 where you are at, hope to get past that soon. Btw what happened to docs blog? It says its private now, how do you access it?
Anonymous
wow inspirational!
i guess you’re around 23?
Entropy4
I just turned 25.
Anonymous
Hey entropy i know Brad P learned a lot from naturals but what exactly do your naturals do differently than a mpua or is it something intangible that they have? I know a couple naturals in my school but i dont necessarily think they are naturals they are just good looking guys is that the case here?
Anonymous
Entropy – you are correct, I am a shorter guy and its been a killer in the past. Is that because I let it be? Not initially but as I tried to progress it has been a real road block. Women on the whole just do not want a short man if they can find another suitable mate. Attraction or not attraction if one truly believes all this evolution stuff tied in mystery method or other “value” based premises, then why would a woman have children with a short man? It takes all the credibility away from any evolution based dating theories. They will always want a taller guy.
Thanks for the reply but I do not think height is over-estimated as you can probably tell…you are tall and I find it so funny that every tall or above average size PUA (Savoy, Brad P, Brent Smith,ect) I have met says the same thing but thats like a guy with a full head of hair saying to a balding guy – “hair means nothing – chicks will dig you with your opinion openers no matter what you look like” oh really??? ever hear the old saying “tall, dark and handsome” ever notice that “Tall” is the first word? I hate to say it, but that is why I cannot take tall PUA’s seriously. If you are short like Doc, Mr. M, Cajun and you do really well with women that are as tall if not taller than you really have something to read about…for a tall guy..lets face it if you have a little game, convey a little status and are persistent – you will get laid by hotter women…
I appreciate your insight but height is a top attraction switch when women first met you. Especially in club and bar settings. Women that are 5′5 to 5′8 that wear heels of 3″ or more put in a “taller” atmosphere and then all of the sudden you are shorter and your value is lower (pardon the pun). You are not taken as seriously and if you approach mixed sets you have more of chance of AMOG problems – I think you have even written about that.
So I still stand by my words. Height is very important. If you are a taller guy without any major hangups or weights around your neck, then you can do really well. The percentages are really in your favor as opposed to a shorter guy and try to refute that – one cannot sweep that under the rug.
Thanks!
Eric
@ Anonymous
I am a shorter guy as well. I’m 5′6″ infact. I came from a place where I was an 18 yr old virgin (I am 24 now) that did not know the community existed and had to teach myself by hook or by crook how to meet and bed women.
I am glad that I did this as I suppose that if I had found the community when I was a desperate virgin I may have become weird(er) and socially awkward. I threw myself into situations and failed and failed over and over again. Eventually I lost my virginity to a girl that now I would consider quite undesirable (but it had to be done).
At this point I have only been with 10 women. I have had 3 girlfriends. Every single girl I have been with has been my height or taller. As tall as 6′ in some cases. What is it about me that allows that to happen?
I admit that my views on women have been very skewed by media and popular culture and because of this I tend to prefer a tall slender girl. It has also been my experience that my friends that are much larger dudes than myself prefer shorter girls. Tiny infact.
I almost feel that this is the law of natural selection. How can I have tall strong children when I am 5′6″ 135lbs? Anway…
I think this all comes down to your core beliefs. Do you think you deserve these tall girls? Are you intimidated by their height? I never act like height is a big deal – until I have their ankles above my shoulders
I understand where you are coming from, but you gotta play the hand you’ve been dealt. No excuses. You talk of Entropys natural advantages. What are your natural advantages?
For me, Im above average looks, I tell engaging stories, and Im naturally cocky. I’ll bet there are qualities about you that you dont even realize are attractive due to your own self-limiting beliefs.
You named a bunch of super PUA dudes but how do they apply to what you want out of your own life?
Did you know that since you are a shorter dude you can pretty much maul women with kino and she will accept it much more easily than a big tall dude like entropy. You can actually escalate easier. If I see a hot girl on the street sometimes I run down the street after her, approach from behind while grabbing her on the outside of her arm and spinning her around to stop her completely. Because of my size I can approach very aggressively and wont scare girls off while projecting confidence. Hows that for an advantage.
If height is such a big issue for you get some new rocks dude. Or go here and get some height shoes http://www.tallmenshoes.com/
Eric
Richard Brian Penn
Without sounding super gay, that was beautiful and touching. You willingly admitted that you needed to get professional help (and not the kind of help you can get from a PUA bootcamp), but that of the professional kind. You definitely made yourself vulnerable for the world to see the “real you.”
Two thumbs up! Would love to see more great posts like this one.
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Great post, bro. I know it’s extremely difficult to open yourself up and reveal some deeply personal things on an open forum like this, but I know I (and many other people) found it helpful and inspiring.
I also have some commitment issues (based mainly on how I always think I can “do better”) that I’m working on, so I can appreciate what you went through. Especially liked your sticking point analysis and what you did to overcome them. Thanks again, man!