Inner Game, PUA Theory - Written by Entropy on Tuesday, April 6, 2010 23:42 - 18 Comments

Experience and Dumb Luck

Reader questions:

How much of success is inner game and how much is outer game? A lot of people say all you need is inner game, which makes sense to me. What else do you say to a guy whose whole reality is “I’m bad with women?”

That he’s probably right and needs to fix some basic things about himself. Anyone who knows me knows that the whole “inner game only” trend drives me absolutely nutty because I think it’s wrong, wrong, wrong. A guy with bad outer game and great inner game will never get laid. A guy with great outer game and bad inner game will get laid all the time — he’ll just lay low quality girls and not be able to keep them around or be happy.

No matter how awesome the shit going on inside your head is, it’s just that: going on inside your head. All a woman ever experiences is your outer game.

If you want to change a guy’s reality that is “I’m bad with women,” then you change it by giving him good outer game first. Fixing your inner game is a luxury of those who already have outer game. I’ve never understood why having this reality is such a bad thing if the guy never gets girls. If you never get girls, then it’s true and you should face it. The problem begins when you meet a guy with 200+ lays who says the same thing: “I’m bad with women.” To have a newbie virgin deny this reality is just shooting himself in the foot. It reminds me of the RSD monkeys I’ve coached who walk around clubs shouting out, “MY GAME IS A 10!” in between getting blown out 11 times in a row… They’re not doing themselves any favors… just deluding themselves from the painful reality: they have a lot of work to do.

Also, second question: how much is just dumb luck? Every guy I talk to with a high lay count has a couple stories that are just lucky.

Or quite a lot of stories… the more experience I get, the more I realize how much is out of our control (And hers too sometimes) and is just dumb luck. I can usually judge a guy’s experience-level these days based on how aware he is of how much luck is involved. It’s always the guys who tell me with a straight face that they’re practicing cold approach threesomes, or that they’re currently working on their bathroom lay technique that I immediately assume have no idea what they’re doing but think they do because they have like 20 lays or something. There’s no technique… you just find a really fucking horny girl (the luck), escalate fast (the skill) and then drag her to the bathroom. She either goes with you or doesn’t… no technique involved.

For instance, when I first came into the community, I was sold on the idea (marketing) that we could control 90-100% of our fate with a certain girl. When I got out into field, I soon realized that was probably much more like 50%. After I banged a few dozen girls and had some ultra-wacky and crazy experiences under my belt, I realized it was a minority, probably 30%.

These days, I honestly think, even when you include all the inner game stuff, the social circle stuff, the lifestyle stuff, on top of all of the mechanics and techniques… we’re talking 20% control of our own fate with any particular girl — and that’s probably still a HUGELY generous estimate — come to South America some time and see how much control you have over the interactions…

Fact remains, the absolute best thing you can do to get laid or get girls, is to just go out and meet as many women in as many situations as possible. Everything you learn, study, practice, think about, etc. is completely supplementary. Give me an average guy will all the pick up theory and skills who goes out twice a week, and give me an average guy who is clueless and goes out five times a week, and the guy who goes out five times will (usually) have better results in the long-run… There are just far, far, far too many intangible and extraneous forces that you can’t learn about until you’ve been forced to face them. I think really the difference between a guy who’s amazing with women and a guy who isn’t is a 90% fail rate versus a 99% fail rate. It doesn’t sound like much, but over the course of 100 sets a month, it adds up very fast.

It’s only when you’re going out all the time that that 20% advantage theory gives you adds up over time. If you’re not putting yourself out there consistently, then there’s nothing anybody can do for you.

As always, field is king.

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18 Comments

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TheSwede
Apr 7, 2010 12:33

Hear, hear…

A lot of times, the only “skill” you need is to Not Fuck Up, and you’re golden. If you want to get technical about it, I guess it comes down to calibration.

I’d rather have really good calibration than anything else because being able to navigate through a situation that’s has so many variables and so little you can control, will, in the end, yield more results than any one particular model, technique(s), etc.

I have a question: can you set yourself up for luck? Like, screen like crazy for girls that are really horny and receptive to escalation (if you’re going for SNL, bathroom, whatever)?

Gully
Apr 7, 2010 15:11

I have a small question, do you drink when you go out to on the ‘field’?

As its a conflict I have, one some level I want to remain healthy so drinking nightly isnt really compatible with that.

The G Manifesto
Apr 7, 2010 16:27

I agree with the whole “dumb luck” thing.

About once a year, some fly girl will come up to me and want to take me home.

A few months back, I was leaning on the bar with one of my friends around closing time. Girl comes straight up to me and asks me if I want to leave. This was after a night of minimal things cooking and getting dissed a few times.

Pure luck.

Or could have been the custom suit.

- MPM

The G Manifesto
Apr 7, 2010 16:29

Gully,

“do you drink when you go out to on the ‘field’? ”

I do. And heavy.

And smoke 3 packs per day.

I work out 2 hours per day to achieve some sort of balance.

No one said this lifestyle was easy on the body.

- MPM

Paul
Apr 7, 2010 17:58

I agree with much of what you said, especially that field is king, but why do you think outer game should be learned first? Do you think that a solid inner reframe can naturally allow things like body language and interaction skills to enhance?

Max
Apr 7, 2010 20:17

I agree with what #1 said.

“A lot of times, the only “skill” you need is to Not Fuck Up, and you’re golden. If you want to get technical about it, I guess it comes down to calibration.”

This, in a combination with being overal a well adjusted guy, who takes care of himself – will take you a long way, way longer than all the phony techniques put together.

battiboy
Apr 7, 2010 21:31

oh looks like someone has been exposed to the pure awesomeness of 60 years of challenge eh entropy

Tom
Apr 7, 2010 21:36

I have been in the community since 2005 and have banged maybe a couple of girls and that was no way a result of the community. It was just me being at the right place at the right time or having friends that new friends. Its like pulling teeth. This whole pickup thing I really have questions on….really do….I am an average guy with all kinds of pickup theory and I rarely get laid or get numbers….I go out tow to three times a week and the chicks usually go to the good looking or status guys. I mean no foolin – that’s life. Right? I agree with you about the numbers thing but do we really need the community for that? Our parents did that so if that is the case, what does the community really do to help lesson the burden?

Entropy
Apr 7, 2010 21:51

Looks like someone has been writing about this since early 2008. ;-P

But I’ve read some 60. I like him.

Aaron
Apr 7, 2010 23:19

i dunno if its ALL dumb luck i mean like one of the guys said some calibration is involved for example oh she just told me she came to this bar by herself guess she wants cock lemme oh…whatya know i have one of those…theres the pull. I also dont think its so much words anymore. Dont get me technique is great but i hear naturals say they do some eye contact thing and escalate. They know its on so they dont run a stack they go for the gusto. a dude i know tells girls that there body is on fire and escalates and it works for him. But your right i think a lot of this stuff is luck because there are a hell of lot of external factors that prevents everything from going down.

Entropy
Apr 7, 2010 23:30

Errr…. I never said it was ALL dumb luck… In fact, I believe I wrote 70-80% probably.

And how are external factors not the same thing as luck? I don’t understand what your point is and whether you agree or disagree…

Game will always give you the best chance to capitalize on the situations presented to you… but short of throwing yourself into as many situations as possible, you have no control over which situations you’re given. And the majority of situations are not going to be stacked in your favor. In fact, the vast majority of situations, you’re going to have little to no chance… That’s what I mean when I say luck.

Even if a guy stands in a bar all night and waits for a girl who’s horny to approach him… he’s still surrendering the majority of control over his outcomes to luck. He’s basically hoping for a drunk, horny girl to show up. Even if he escalates perfectly, he’s only controlled a tiny minority of his outcome.

As far as verbal vs. non-verbal game… that’s a whole different topic… but yeah, if you meet a girl who’s already turned on and into you, then words will actually hurt you rather than help you. if you meet a reserved girl who is only mildly into you, then you need to have tight verbal game.

Aleator
Apr 8, 2010 4:12

Luck is often presented as something magical, while there has in fact been psychological research on the subject, please see “The Luck Factor” , Richard Wiseman (2003) for more information.
People who describe themselves as “lucky” seem to share certain behavioral patterns and personality traits. Some of them are openness, extraversion and willingness to listen to intuition. “Lucky people tend to talk more to other people and are thus more wellinformed and when they are looking for a new jobs etc.

As you describe in your seven immutable laws of pickup that success in the end comes down to a numbers game. And you only get good by doing an “ASS-LOAD” of sets. A lot of people (including myself) dream of the one shot – one kill pickup. While it seems that the (well-aimed) heavy artillery barrage is more efficient to increase both the numbers ant the quality of notches.

Aaron
Apr 8, 2010 10:46

My mistake i see your point

www.EntropyPUA.com – Pre-Selection, Drinking and Reframes
Apr 8, 2010 18:20

[...] smattering of questions popped up in the comments to my last post about dumb luck and experience. I’d also like to make some clarifications, as some people seem to not [...]

Max Karlstedt
Apr 12, 2010 15:22

Great post, man!

More people need to realize what I would view as the
truth which is that outer game is the best way to improve
your outer game AND inner game at the same time.

I would also to point out that if you would get a girl through
luck, skills or a combination of, why do you care about that?

Was not it the concrete results you were after, and not to
prove to yourself (and/or others) that a certain method works?

Just some foods for thoughts!

Great post once again, man!

/ Max.

Nonsense
Apr 12, 2010 15:46

I think your view is very pessimistic. As far as I can tell the following is consistent with all your observations, and this philosophy serves me well in day game (my night game is just passable):

90% of girls I you want are layable, the reasons you don’t sleep with them are varying degrees of obstacles or problems. ‘Pick up’ helps you smooth over these problems. If the girl is with friends, you know to befriend the group. If the girl is shy, you use comfort games to get her out of her shell. You escalate like a demon while talking about Keynesian economics, because you know separating rational from emotional helps girls feel safe with things that may usually worry them, and the sooner you touch her the sooner she’ll fall for you. If you hit a problem you can’t surmount, you know enough to work around it and, when time permits, think up plausible ’solutions’ that you can try next time it comes up.

Of course, I did about 100 approaches before I started seeing success, but once you see it you can never unsee it and your ability to make women happy skyrockets.

Entropy
Apr 12, 2010 16:05

Nonsense: You may be right… I mean, it’s true… the circumstance is up to chance (out of your control) and how you handle the circumstance is up to your skill… Some circumstances give you more control than others…

Looking back, I was a little bitter the last two weeks because I had a few weeks there where Argentina was handing my ass to me.

SupermanPUA
Apr 26, 2010 23:52

Come to think of it, a lot of the breakthroughs I’ve had, happened from luck.

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