What happened? I went for it. I gave her an ample 10-15 minutes to get back and gave her a call. Her hotel was way across town and I’d be stranded a good $30 cab from home, so I wanted to make sure she made it back and was set to go before I dropped that kind of money and resigned myself to being up until dawn to get home (I would NOT have slept over there, but taken the 30 minute cab ride home).

I called her and the answer was a garbled mess, girls fighting in the background — screaming at each other — all that was distinguishable was, “NO! I DON’T GIVE A SHIT” and then a click. Called back, nothing. Called back, nothing. Wait two minutes, called back, phone is turned off.

So I had the decision to make: should I just show up at the hotel and bang on her door? A couple things prevented me from doing this:
1. The fact that I was still likely to get cockblocked HARD even when I got there.
2. The logistical fact of where the hotel was and relative to my apartment — the fact that I’d be up until 6AM and and dropping $50+ on cab rides. The logistical fact that I may not even be able to get into the hotel, and the fact that she may not even let me in if I did get there. All in all, the chance of success of just showing up and trying was very low.
3. The moral ambiguity of the situation.

So I called it a night and went home. Could have I still laid her? Maybe. But I don’t think the odds were in my favor at that point.

Why did I do it? I agree with the majority of responses I’ve gotten to this: that ultimately, her life is HER responsibility and I can’t or shouldn’t be held accountable for the decisions that she makes. I’ve never had moral qualms with fucking a girl who’s cheating on somebody else, and even in this more extreme situation, ultimately, I figured she knew herself, her desires, and her life better than anybody else, so who am I to choose for her?

But there are some counterarguments that I believe hold some weight:

Counterargument #1: With great power comes great responsibility argument: This was the main point my wingman made, and I have to admit, I agree with it to an extent. Girls think less rationally when they’re drunk. They think less rationally when their buying temperature is through the roof. As a PUA, I’m going to be adept at putting girls into these situations and therefore have to be more careful in my value judgments. I see it as being like a charismatic politician: once you gain this skill-set, you begin to possess more influence over people than the average person. With that extra influence comes a greater moral weight on your shoulders to affect people positively, to give value and to not violate them in any way.

Now, in the end, does she have agency? Yes. But EVERYONE is subject to influence by those around us. The argument here is that, given PUA skills and a large amount of influence over any given girl, we are now vested in part of that responsibility for their actions.

The problem with this argument, and the reason why ultimately I disagree with it is that it’s a slippery slope. It’s the same reason I take the same side in the “Should fuck a drunk girl?” argument. Sure, she may be drunk enough to not make a 100% rational decision, but she made a 100% rational decision to get that drunk with me. Sure, she wasn’t 100% rational when her buying temperature was that high, but she made the 100% rational decision to let me hang around and game her. Even if she doesn’t know what she’s doing, she did at some point. If she’s not to be held accountable for anything she didn’t 100% rationally choose, when does it end? Is she suddenly not responsible because she had no control over whether I approached her or not? Where does it end?

In the end, I do think there is a legitimate ethical issue behind this, but I find it to be minor in the greater scheme of things. A person’s free agency and ultimate obligation to their own actions outweighs any outside influence by a ton in situations like this.

Counterargument #2: The Abundance Argument I found this one interesting and also agree with it to an extent. The argument is similar to the first in that I am in a unique moral situation given my greater power.

Assuming I have the ability to pull a SNL a high % of the times I go out, I will have the ability to SNL more than one girl on any given night and in any given venue. Because of this, my opportunity cost of ejecting from this girl and sarging another is almost nil. Whereas sleeping with girl will cause a gigantic rupture in her personal life, in a majority of girls’ lives, it won’t. Therefore, I stand to gain/lose VERY LITTLE by sarging her rather than somebody else. Whereas she has a SHIT TON to lose by sleeping with me. Given this huge disparity in value, there is a moral difference in choosing to sarge the bride or somebody else. It’s like trying to get a homeless man to loan you a dollar when there are hundreds of perfectly wealthy people around the corner. There IS a moral dilemma in it.

Regardless, I reject this argument because I believe it can be argued that she DID possess more value to me than some other random girl there. 1) She was one of the hottest girls there that night and 2) I had already invested time and energy into the set. Flimsy considering her MARRIAGE is in the balance, but if we go by the assumption that I’m not responsible for anything in her life-situation (which I don’t think I am — see above), then that’s a non-issue.

Random Points that I don’t Agree With:

The Marriage is a Social Construct Argument: The argument is that since marriage is a social construct and not real in any literal sense, breaking it is in no way intrinsically wrong.

I agree that it’s a social construct, but that’s not important. What’s important is that SHE VALUES IT. For instance, you could make the argument that a lollipop really holds little or no value — so does that mean stealing one from a little kid isn’t wrong? No, it’s fucked up because the kid values it highly.

Her friends cockblocked out of self-interest: I think this is WAY off the mark. Let’s be real. The bride would wake up the next morning and her first thought would be, “Oh Jesus, WHAT DID I DO?” followed by an emotional meltdown. I completely accepted this fact at the time and do now.

My issue isn’t her short-term quagmire, but rather the long-term affect on her life. My perspective was, if she’s going to cheat, she might as well do it while she’s single. I actually slept with an engaged girl a year or two ago and it ended up ruining their marriage (i.e., she called it off because of what we did). Although she was a wreck for a long time, down the road (like a year), she seemed grateful for what happened.

Is it possible to know how this would have played out? Absolutely not. But the fact is, the friends were looking out for the girl’s long-term interests despite whatever short-term whims she had at that very moment because they recognized the bride wasn’t completely able to think rationally.

Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda: Finally, as in every set — this one was imperfect, and some very experienced guys have commented on how I could have pulled this off better.

- Go for the bathroom pull. This crossed my mind briefly that night. Logistically, within the club, it would have required getting past all of the cockblocks again. I also fucking hate bathroom lays. I’ve done two and both were miserable and awkward experiences.
- Being more discrete. This DEFINITELY could have worked, but I don’t think was possible given my mindset through the night. By the time I realized she was attainable, the cockblocks had already been initialized and were on full alert. If I had gamed her with the intent of getting her from the beginning, I could have pulled her aside early on, and planned a meet-up afterwards.