News - Written by Entropy on Monday, March 16, 2009 14:33 - 11 Comments

Doc Holliday Retires

To read his uncharacteristically short-winded farewell, go here. His blog is taken down. Comments are disabled. If you’d like to say something to him, you can comment on this post and/or email him at dochollidaypua@gmail.com. He told me he’s going to still check it now and again for the next month or so. Although don’t ask him dating/day game questions, as I’m sure they’ll go unanswered.

So I suppose SOMETHING should be said here. And I guess since he has nothing to say, I’ll say something.

First of all, everyone should know that there was no in-fighting, melodrama or money issues. He and I are still on very good terms and as far as I understand he’s leaving without any bad blood or ill will towards anyone. For anyone who’s curious, he’s planning on going back to school and pursuing a real life job.

I’ve known Doc for almost three years now. To be honest, when I met the guy, I thought he was really obnoxious. He was in the middle of what he refers to as his “over alpha” phase — basically, he had just lost his virginity and kind of thought he was a lot better than he actually was and acted like everyone should know it. In short, he was the obnoxious “alpha” community guy who was over-compensating for everything — trying to be too loud, too funny, too cool, etc.

Looking back, it’s ironic that I ended up working with him, but being the main day game guy in Boston and me being the main night game here, it made sense at the time.

As time went on, he mellowed out, he matured, he got a lot smarter — not just intellectually, but emotionally as well. Today, I’d call him a good friend. Three years ago I never would have guessed that.

I owe the guy a lot. Although it’s annoying now and then, he’s one of the only people in my life who gets on my case when I fuck up. Having friends who will always call you out on your bullshit is valuable, especially working in an industry like this.

Last summer when I was completely disillusioned with the whole scene, being a coach and freaking out because I had just quit my day job, his enthusiasm and persistence helped get me through that. If it weren’t for him, I’d probably be back in a cubicle right now.

But it’s because of that experience that I don’t blame him in the least bit for leaving and am not bitter at all. Sure, this scene improves the lives of thousands of men the world over, but there are some fucked up aspects of it, especially once you get good, and ABSOLUTELY when you start working in it. In some ways, it takes a strong stomach to work in this field.

Despite whatever you think about Neil Strauss, he wrote in his book, “The only way to win the game is to quit playing it.” There’s definitely a lot of truth in that. The only guys who stay in this scene after they get good are validation junkies or instructors (and often both). The guys who get what they came for eventually find themselves leaving. Now it’s Doc’s turn.

I wish him the best of luck in his future endeavors. I imagine I’ll keep in touch with him, so if for some insanely unlikely reason you need to get in touch with him, you can email me.

As for Practical Pickup, it will be shutting down in its present incarnation. I will be continuing on, flying solo. I’m not worried about it. Actually, I’ve got more business right now than I’ve ever had before. I have big plans for this blog and the industry in general, so you guys should stick around. I’ll continue coaching, but probably not in any organized bootcamp format.

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11 Comments

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Anonymous
Mar 16, 2009 15:45

Its too bad, Doc must have a vision for his life that does not include PU, i wonder what are his planes.
For other people (instructors) working in the industry, its more of a flow of life they are accustomed to i guess, doing something else other than teaching PU would be like peddaling upstream, its not about validation IMO. You don’t need to “quit the game in order to win it”
winning is enjoying what you do evryday.

Blue
Mar 16, 2009 18:31

I totally get what your saying here… it’s true, once people get good they usually leave because they got what they want out of it, which is in most cases self-improvement. The reason I stay in it now is because I absolutely love it, and I want to make it my lifetime career. If I wanted to do something else for a career, I probably wouldn’t be here right now since I have gotten everything I’ve wanted from it. My main focus right now is making strides in the game, coming up with new and more perfected strategies, and really helping other people. If I wasn’t a pua coach, I would be some other type of coach since I love helping others.

I met Doc Holiday briefly, but I could tell he’s a good guy with a lot of heart, and it’s really too bad he won’t be around to help all the guys out there that really need it. I’m sure whatever he’s doing or whatever he gets into he will succeed and make a difference. I send my regards out to Doc Holiday and wish him the very best. : )

~Blue

JSmooth
Mar 16, 2009 19:28

Good for Doc! :) I met him once here in Nashville at a lair talk he did. Then talking to him at dinner and in the club was interesting. I was impressed by his knowledge, and continue to follow his work. I learned a lot from him and continued to follow his blog.

Thanks Doc, you’ll be missed.

Jon

Anonymous
Mar 16, 2009 19:47

Doc is a great guy and knows his stuff. You can tell he was taught by Sinn for he has his professionalism and care for his students. Doc helped me out with a phone consultation a couple of months ago and I he was the only PUA – I mean ONLY to do a full recap writeup and then suggestions at the end. I have done probably 7 to 8 with various other PUA “guru’s” and not one of them did what Doc did – not one. Class act and I wish him the best in the future.

John Galt
Mar 16, 2009 21:13

The year was 2008. I was in my mid-thirties, nerdy, and newly divorced, when, through an unlikely series of coincidences, I made friends with Doc and ended up becoming his roommate for a year. I was never officially his student, and even though we only went out a few times, somehow, through sheer osmosis, I managed to absorb a little of his zest for life and irreverent view of the world. Within that year, I had fucked two cute girls, and met an amazing girl who I moved in with a few months ago. And I’m just one of the many, many guys whose lives he’s helped turn around. It still amazes me when I think about it how someone so much younger than me could have taught me so much about becoming a man. Doc, thanks a million, and best wishes in your life ahead. – Your friend, John Galt

Richard Brian Penn
Mar 16, 2009 22:19

Good for Doc – I agree. Most people that stay involved in pickup either become instructors or their lives are about pickup and they enjoy the “brotherhood” of talking about banging random girls. It’s an empty life.

I still follow it on the fringes because it fascinates me, but at some point if you’re not making money or enhancing your quality of life; it’s time to move on.

Entropy, keep up the good work helping men handling their personal lives. And, Doc…good luck with pursuing your dreams :)

RBP

Sparks
Mar 16, 2009 22:39

He got what he came for and left. I can’t really blame him since it’s my own plan.

sandy
Mar 17, 2009 2:37

Doc is awesome guy….

I havent gotten in GamE cause time school etc…

Im not even good and dropped alot of shit to get into game,
now that I have time but no fufillment nor happy with my Life or results Im getting ..I feel I made a mistake and confused now with all this…?! I was going ask him for help or advice about it and then….I got the email :(

this..and now..?

I guess he is seeking balance in life…

Doc leaving did impact me, seeing he is pursuing school and other stuff…he is ready for what comes to him we all deal w social interactions and people everyday,he is just very good at it.=)
He is great guy and great coach.

He is MOST mature and level headed than many guys Ive known…

I never saw him as a guru, I saw him as a friend….he is a real person who like helping people genuinely at what he knew BEST…

thank you bro,

sandy

srung
Mar 18, 2009 6:41

If practicalpickup.com is finished, than can you share its released podcast?

Briddick
Mar 21, 2009 2:11

as a pick up artist everyone will eventually retire becaue it’s a ‘fantasy’lifestyle that once becomes a reality, basically becomes a letdown. Not only are you let down by the lack of longterm joy one night stands bring you, you are also held to a ‘PUA guru’ status that tears you away from your original intent: to be able to connect with people. Cheers. Wishing Doc Holiday the best in whatever endeavors that bring him true joy!
-Briddick

Anonymous
Mar 23, 2009 9:36

Best of luck to Doc. I hope that he’s able to find that which makes his life complete.

I truly view the Game as a more stylish, more hip version of self-help and I thoroughly believe that the Game has completely revolutionized me.

For this, I am eternally grateful to every member of the community whose insights and material I’ve read.

May you find greater things in life than pickup, and may you distinguish between the thrill of a great, balanced lifestyle and the need to sarge regularly.

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