This is a follow up to Sunday’s Conversation Demolition. A reader had a great question about gaming girls at work and how having a reputation as a player can affect your career:

Does developing a “reputation” in the office seem to hurt your ability to rise in the company? PU stuff all aside. I would think maybe, especially in this day and age where women have more power in the workplace. if they are showing disdain on the surface, even if they really want your penis, that could still hurt you. But maybe not.

To be honest, I’ve never held a stable 9-5 office job for more than six weeks, so I couldn’t really answer it, but some other readers were able to offer good points.

It’s specific to the industry in which you work. In the financial services world (or what still exists of it), there are very few women in management and it’s a very alpha-centric social order, so fucking one or multiple female assistants or associates is no big deal and probably helps your office status. In other worlds, building a reputation as the office slut will not be a good thing for your career path at all.

In general though, and to quote my old Italian professor and life mentor, don’t shit where you eat. While it can be hot to fuck one of your co-workers on your work desk, and you can certainly get away with it, you’re creating a ton of potential for screwing up your career if you don’t navigate the situation well. 1,000 times more true if one of you in any way reports to the other one.

If you’re serious about your career (and you don’t work in an atmosphere where fucking co-workers is encouraged as it is in banking), dip into that pool at your own peril. There are plenty of other ways to meet hot women.

And another good point:

Keep in mind that if anything goes wrong and she uses the dreaded words “sexual harassment” you are in for a world of trouble. Not worth the risk IMO.

But I suppose a fact of note is that the hero in the demolition is from Europe and Europeans tend to be much more lax about sex in general than Americans, so I asked the man himself, and this is what he had to say:

I have been sleeping and fooling around with girls on various jobs, and it has never hurt my carreer.

What is very important though, at least in my opinion and also for most of the girls, is that you are discrete and keep it on the down low. Not only shouldn’t you want to be seen as a player that uses all the girls, she doesn’t want everybody to know either. This is also something that you can use to build attraction and sexual tension, for instance by mentioning how naughty it is to sleep with a co-worker. Furthermore, most bosses don’t appreciate office romances, simply because it’s distracting and thus may influence performance. So if your boss notices that you’re screwing all the girls in the office he won’t be happy about it, especially not if he isn’t getting any of them.

My advice would be to keep it discrete, and try to make sure nobody finds out.

And there ya have it. Use your judgment and discretion wisely. Or as my dad used to tell me, “Son, don’t dip your pen in company ink.” But luckily I’m in an industry that’s pretty accepting about those things.

- A poster asked: “Is it wrong to pursue a girl after your friend has tried and failed with her?”
- The overwhelming response is “no, it’s not wrong,” although a couple guys commented that they’ve had problems with non-community friends getting mad about this.
- I chimed in saying I had lost a friendship in this way before.
- I was asked the following question: “Do you think that this has to do with a scarcity/abundance mindset, or is there something else at play here?”
- Another poster noted: “I think one of the main reasons is just the possibility of a deflated ego were your friend to succeed. A guy is almost sure to draw comparisons, etc, and maybe put himself down.”

Here was my response:

Both are true. Although the former was the cause and the latter was the effect. Let me explain…

He was my best friend through most of college. When I found the PUA community I started getting results pretty quickly. So whereas for two years, he and I used to stand around college parties with our beers, talking about how hot certain girls were but never approaching them, suddenly within a few months I was getting make-outs and lays. This was awesome at first, and he was excited for me, and I even tried to help him… but it soon started to generate friction, as I continued to get hotter girls more often and more consistently.

It came to a head after about a year. We both met this girl at the same time and were both into her. She was beautiful, smart, sweet, and she was responding warmly to him — something he wasn’t used to from a girl of her caliber. He asked me not to go for her, so I obliged. He blew it.

We ran into her AGAIN a few weeks later and he gamed her AGAIN. This time he got her number. But he never worked up the nerve to call her.

Another few weeks go by and I run into her by myself out at a bar and talk to her. She was giving me IOI’s and was fucking hot as shit. So I said fuck it, he had two legitimate shots and over a month to make something happen and he didn’t. He had gone after girls that I messed up with and I never cared (and at times, girls who I laid as well… but still didn’t care). So what’s the big deal? So, in this respect, yes, it was a question of scarcity versus abundance mentality. But that’s just the surface… the reverberations of that problem ran deeper and ended up crumbling the entire relationship.

I didn’t tell him I fucked her even though she became my main MLTR pretty quickly. I probably should have told him. About a month later, I brought her to a friend’s party. I was sitting on the couch with my arm around her. Completely unannounced and unexpected my buddy shows up, sees us, turns around and leaves five minutes later and has still not talked to me to this day.

In the end, it wasn’t just the scarcity/abundance mentality. It was the fact that I succeeded where he failed… and not just failed at like golf or poker or something, but with women. Most guys have a TON of pride and base a lot of their self-value on their success with women. The fact that he would have to watch me enjoy and repeatedly fuck this girl that he wanted, tried and failed would be a constant reminder of this shortcoming. I guess his ego didn’t want to deal with it. And not only that, but he probably perceived that I was doing it to gratify MY own ego… to SHOW him that I could do it, even though to me it didn’t matter either way.

They tell you when you get into this that you will lose friends. YOU WILL. Looking back, it was for the better. Overall, he had become a negative influence on my life and I had become a negative influence on his. Once we weren’t able to be lame college kegger guys together, it exposed our friendship… or lack thereof.

In the end, whatever happens is for the better. If a guy is willing to cause drama and threaten the friendship over a random girl… then maybe you should question the value of the friendship.

When I say being non-judgmental I don’t just mean the SNL frame. I guess that’s why I first starting thinking about this topic however many months ago it was but there’s a lot more to it than that.

For anyone who isn’t familiar with what I’m talking about, there’s a concept of force framing that Sinn, Captain Jack, El Topo, Levo, Puzzler, and a few other guys at MM have been working on lately. Basically you put a frame out there, let’s stick to SNL frames and use “being discrete.” So you’re going to mention being discrete, then tell a story about it, and finally bring it back to you and how you’re discrete. And why would you want a woman to think you’re discrete? Because when she fucks you it’s nice for her to know you’re not going to tell the whole world about it, she doesn’t want to be seen as a slut, and if no one finds out she won’t be.

I’ll give an example of force framing on a woman that you’re a person people like to be around… I don’t see any practical pick up value to force framing that but I want to give an example without giving away one of my stories for an SNL frame.

You know what is just like the best thing in the world? People who you make you feel good just by being around them. <- I just put the frame out
Like I used to know this guy who was just so friendly and warm to everyone. You could be in the worst pissed off mood ever but as soon as he came around you just started to feel better. It was amazing, and I haven’t met many people like that but when I do I know that they’re just like special and someone I should be around. You know? <- Telling a story relating to the frame
And you know, I was with my sister the other day. And she’s going through a real rough patch in her life right now but like we were talking and she told me that just me being around her made her feel that everything was going to be alright. And like right away I thought of the guy I used to know that could always cheer anyone up <-Relating the frame to yourself

Now I just came up with that off the top of my head but it gives you the idea of how it works and I’m sure you can imagine how powerful something like that could be with sexual frames.

So I was doing something like the example above only the frame I was putting out was “I’m non-judgmental.” The whole point of that frame was to show women I wouldn’t judge them for having sex with me and think of them as sluts. Also it led to crazier sex later on down the line because they knew I’d be down for and not think less of them because they went ass to mouth.

And it worked, less LMR and more sex. But because of my crazy comfort game already creating such a deep connection and then adding in the I won’t judge them for anything frame. The end result was women started telling me some pretty fucked up shit about their lives.

At first I was really taken aback by it all, stuff like cutting, prior drug use, attempted suicide, crazy number of sexual partners, going to mental hospitals, going to jail, getting raped, the list goes on and on.

More and more women started sharing their fucked up past with me and I realized that a lot of it was very common, most women have done or gone through something from the list about they just don’t share it with everyone. So they have all this fucked up baggage right? But they’re still amazing women, with great personalities, senses of humor, and are obviously very beautiful.

I started to really not be able to judge people. Women were opening themselves up to me and telling me things that they didn’t tell anyone, how could I judge or look down on them after they were that open with me? They very well could have kept it a secret and I’d have never known all this stuff about them. But then I wouldn’t really know them would I? There would always be a disconnect between us.

This is more of an inner game thing. You have to be pretty secure in yourself and who you are to honestly not think less of people for mistakes they’ve made.

But here’s the thing, we’re all humans, we’re not perfect, we fuck up, we make mistakes, and just all around do shit that we probably shouldn’t have done. I know I have. But we learn from it and move on.

I’m seeing a girl who used to really be into drugs, and some really bad stuff happened because of it. She said to me “If we had met four years ago, I never would have gotten involved in all that stuff and we’d probably be married.” And I said “Babe, the things we do make us who we are, I’m not the same person I am today that I was four years ago, and I know you’re not either. Yeah some stuff happened, and it probably wasn’t right. But it happened and it made you who you are and I wouldn’t want you any other way.” I honestly believe that.

I guess it all comes down to that you just have to accept people for who they are. Everyone has done things they’re not proud of and if you say you haven’t you’re probably full of shit.

Pickup can really change who you are at a deep level, let it.