Other - Written by Entropy on Wednesday, December 31, 2008 13:46 - 11 Comments

PUA Community Year in Review — 2008


At the dawn of 2009, you have to admit, the community has become quite successful. If you look at the original “lay guide” written back in 2002 (the Lay Guide that inspired Style to get into the community), Maniac High brags about how he had 16 lays in four years.

In 2008 terms, those numbers are laughable. I think every major lair I’ve visited has had at least 2-3 guys who can top those numbers, not to mention select-few coaches who are pushing 50+ a year.

The truth is, in 2008, a LOT of people are getting laid. It’s not a big deal anymore. Lay reports used to garner THOUSANDS of views and comments on forums. Now people barely read them. There are guys I’ve gone out with who are better than many of the “big name” coaches out there. And what’s huge is that people are just starting to figure this out.

In my opinion, THAT is the big story of 2008. The community has gotten so big and so good, they’re realizing the bar set four years ago was incredibly low. So what does this mean for the community? Well, I think this is what we saw this year as a result:

1) The Over-Commercialization of PUA – This has been going on for a few years now, but I feel like it exploded in 2008. I knew a lot of people were trying to hop onto the bandwagon, but it wasn’t until I started coaching that I realized how MANY people were on it. Aside from the big three or four companies, there’s literally dozens of small-fry companies and then dozens more amateur coaches on top of that, who just take a bit of money on the side.

But I don’t think this was as big of a deal as it was in 2007 for two reasons. For one, I think the market growth is finally slowing down, the massive influx of new customers that “The Game” and the TV show brought has finally stopped. Secondly, the economy has gone to shit and I think the whole industry is suffering from that.

As a result, a lot of guys who are really good have decided that it’s too hard and takes too much work to successfully coach, so they’ve started up PUA community sites. There are literally dozens of large-scale PUA-content sites, all trying to create mailing lists, give away free reports, and sell affiliate products.

But the biggest effect of the over-commercialization is that it’s KILLED all but the local message boards. What we’re left with is the company message boards: The Attraction Forums, RSDNation, Charisma Arts’ board, etc. All of which are highly moderated, censored and are full of fanboys for their own company. FastSeduction has been reduced to a support group of uber old skoolers who sit around and pontificate on new theories over and over again.

2) The Anti-Community Meme – I think the biggest thing about the generation of guys that “The Game” and the TV show brought in, is that most of these guys were already pretty normal pre-community. They just had one screw loose — they needed to be more dominant, or they needed to learn to open — once that happened, everything else was already in place.

The result of this is that you’ve seen some guys get good super fast. We’ve also watched a lot of guys get WORSE because of the community.

Like I mentioned above, the guys who got good really fast are quickly discovering that their favorite “guru” isn’t quite as good as they thought — people are seeing through the marketing bullshit. So they’re disgruntled. And then you have the guys who used to be pretty normal and have a girlfriend here or there who have learned community theory and gotten worse. So THEY’RE disgruntled too.

In general, people are becoming incredibly disillusioned with the whole community. People openly make fun of not only gurus, but the whole CONCEPT of gurus on message boards now. People scoff at the idea of changing yourself, talk about how they wish they never found the community, how the whole thing is a scam, etc.

Nothing summarizes this discontent quite like the The Barry Kirkey Show, a podcast full of nothing but seduction community members who do nothing but, yup, you guessed it, bash the seduction community (Real Social Dynamics in particular). But these aren’t just some angry newbies… the show is full of former coaches and long-term PUA’s who have grown to find the whole system a joke.

3) Change of Focus from Outer Game to Inner Game – With the release of “The Blueprint” and “Flawless Natural” this year — easily the two biggest products of the year, RSD has cemented itself as the market-leader and the vanguard of the new “inner game only” trend.

I believe this reflects market-forces. As I mentioned above, that great influx of the “normal guys” who were attracted to the community by “The Game” and VH1 were dudes who really just needed to fix their inner game issues.

But as a result, an erroneous belief spread that “inner game is the only game” and that really all you need is to be in state, to have fun, to “be the party” and other similarly vague concepts that most guys are unable to implement on their own, much less even know what they mean.

The truth is, and much of this is reflected in the backlash that began the second part of 2008, that people are realizing fixing your inner game doesn’t fix everything.

People knew from before that fixing your outer game doesn’t fix everything either. So if inner game doesn’t fix it, and outer game doesn’t fix it. What the fuck fixes it?

Hence, everyone getting pissed off.

Where everything is headed – Again, I see all of these trends as simply a result of natural market forces. The PUA community has become an industry. There’s no changing that or going back, so get used to it. We must analyze the community as a market to make any sense of it.

Up until this point, companies have fought over who has the better “model” for success. We’ve been arguing over canned versus natural and inner versus outer for years now.

The truth is, and what very few people are catching onto, is that not every guy needs the same thing. Guys with awful social skills need routines and outer game. Guys with good social skills but bad inner game need inner game work. Not everybody is built the same way. This is what I’ve been trying to spearhead with Practical Pickup and will continue to do so.

So here are my predictions for 2009 as far as the community is concerned:

1) Market forces will force a lot of websites and small companies to close shop. The economy, the market saturation, and the lack of quality new content coming out will force a lot of people to the sidelines, possibly even a major company or two. I predict we’ll have FEWER companies and PUA websites at the end of 2009 as 2008, but they will be of higher quality and content.

2) The backlash will continue and grow in the short-term but eventually be incorporated into the market in a meaningful way. What I mean by this is, this backlash is occurring because what is being supplied isn’t meeting demand anymore. Guys are starting to demand more and different things from companies and the companies haven’t adapted to satisfy them. The first company to do this will have a huge leg up going into the next few years.

3) Local lairs and organizations will play much bigger roles. Since the only national and international boards are controlled by commercial interests, localized boards will take more precedent for objective information. They will also grow because of a larger focus on actually going out versus digesting more material. Local boards and lairs may even be able to grow enough to form viable business models that may threaten the larger international companies in the future (we’re already seeing this in NYC).

4) A new meme will have to be established in the community. Mystery Method dominated the marketplace with it’s outer-game focus and RSD has dominated by focusing on inner game. Unfortunately, the community seems short on innovators. 2009 will be determined greatly by who can be the first to come up with the “next great big thing.”

Who will it be?

  • Share/Bookmark

Like This Article? Join My Newsletter!


You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

Dec 31, 2008 20:37

Some thoughts:

The internet really changed everything. When the “community” began with people like Ross Jeffries, the online thing was still very new and there was not a whole lot of exposure. You’d heard about these guys maybe in the back of some seedy magazine or every once in a while, there might be a feature in a larger publication.

The truth is, in 2008, a LOT of people are getting laid. It’s not a big deal anymore.

Well, yes I guess that’s true ;-0 I’d say the social networking sites (Myspace, etc.) and the diminishment of certain mores have allowed this to happen.

PUA as a commercial enterprise:

Well, it’s always been as a market is really just the exchange of values, not necessarily monetary. The relatively ineffective ideas get pushed out by newer ones and we’ve saw that with the transition to “inner/natural game” and internal gimmickry, from patterns/routines and external gimmickry. People are always looking for the next best thing and so the herd mentality will continue, although perhaps less if people can’t (or won’t) spend as much on this. Depends on the product.

Anti-Community Trend:

Not much to say here, this is just the formation a new community, lol.

Change of Focus:

As I think about it, I’d say that the newest thing will probably be something similar to “life coaching”. This concept has been very popular in the last 30 years or so–it’s not just for athletes any more. I can see a more catholic approach, something along the lines of “The Comprehensive Man”. Such a strategy would include offering financial, physical fitness, leisure, and pickup training and advice. People are living longer now and are looking for purpose and I think a sense of direction other than just surviving and paying the bills. I have some other ideas as to how this type of consulting might happen.



Dec 31, 2008 21:21

Another possibility:

Because of the saturation of ideas and offers, combined with the disgruntlement that you mentioned, it’s possible that the entire industry will just shrink. You may be left with local forums or blogs and some boutiques like kinowear or David Shade or whatever, but unless there’s some hook (it doesn’t even have to be one-stop-shopping like I mentioned earlier), guys may walk away from this altogether.

Jan 5, 2009 22:17

Nice post.

Call me crazy, but what I think is missing is a spiritually grounded win/win approach. That’s what is coming next. Will the big guys listen? We’ll see.

Jan 6, 2009 6:07

Nice post.

Call me crazy, but what I think is missing is a spiritually grounded win/win approach. That’s what is coming next. Will the big guys listen? We’ll see.

Yes, you could be right. I thought about that, but the problem I see is that spirituality these days is synonymous with the embracing of contradictions, mysticisms, and wishful thinking. Now, we do live in a culture where that sort of thing is acceptable, so maybe that’s what will happen.

Jan 6, 2009 6:08

Perhaps it’s already happened though. Isn’t that what David Deida does?

Jan 6, 2009 13:25

Yes and no.

I have nothing again the spiritual direction of the community and like a lot of it.

But when it comes down to it, guys are coming here because they’re sexually frustrated, not because they want evolved consciousness or to be enlightened.

Right now, the majority of the companies are not getting the results that have been promised for years, and people are getting pissed off.

So my thought is that 2009 is going to revolve less around, “what do they teach?” and more around, “does he get results?”

Jan 7, 2009 11:00

“Call me crazy, but what I think is missing is a spiritually grounded win/win approach. That’s what is coming next. Will the big guys listen? We’ll see.”

There’s a meme. But its a couple years old already. Carlos Xuma. Heard of him? He’s a skinny guy in the San Fran area who teaches Martial Arts, etc, and is a big proponent of the ‘total lifestyle coaching’ not just getting laid.

Guys like him who’d actually investigated Buddhism, and Jungian Theory, (actually even David D was doing that: Meeting the Shadow, book) come back and look at pickup in a whole new light: you have cravings, and the solution is not to push away sex (celibacy), but to look on it without clinging or revulsion. If you like the sound of that, seriously check out Buddhism. That’s what its about. You don’t have to live in a Monastary and give up sex, just don’t be tormented by your sex drive.

Alot of people are getting alot of pussy, but the next step for those people is

a)scoring better quality chicks
b)realizing that sex is just like any other high, always slightly better in your mind that in real life
c)detaching from clinging to sexual gratification
d)translating that energy into something of actualy significance
e)women chase you even more because you have so much value, you transcend the notion of picking up chicks. They pick you up.

msn: sketchtrain@hotmail.com

Jan 11, 2009 16:25

This article talks about a problem with the Anti-community meme you mentioned:

Knowing The Seduction Community Is Flawed Is Pointless If You Don’t Act On It


“Lots of guys are benefiting from knowing the scene is screwed up, but for others the concept doesn’t seem to have sunk in. Everyone throws around the idea that the scene is weird, and gives advice about what pitfalls to avoid, but sometimes the words are pretty empty.

For example, several times I’ve been reading through a forum thread and the posters were talking about how the scene was messed up and you should avoid the worst of it. But the guys writing this stuff were all textbook weird, trollish Seduction Community forum regulars. They were talking about how the Community was weird while simultaneously epitomizing everything that’s weird about it.”

The G Manifesto
Jan 21, 2009 21:02

Interesting take.

Pick up Artists will never die.

What would replace it?


Mar 12, 2009 18:31

1) Market forces will force a lot of websites and small companies to close shop.

Maybe the government will bail out the pickup industry…who knows?

www.EntropyPUA.com – PUA Community Year in Review — 2009
Jan 8, 2010 21:31

[...] year about this time, I covered the changes and developments in the “PUA Community” in: PUA Community Year in Review — 2008. If you haven’t read it before and have been around that long (or not), it may be worth [...]

Leave a Reply


Most Popular Content

News - Sep 29, 2010 5:34 - 8 Comments

New Site, Blog Moved

More In News

PUA Skills - Sep 10, 2010 14:40 - 18 Comments

Pick Up is NOT a Skill

More In PUA Skills

Other, PUA Theory - May 23, 2010 10:50 - 8 Comments

Styles and Locality

More In PUA Theory